Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

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    Cornmastah
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    Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Cornmastah on Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:38 pm

    I ended up selling my DPMS SASS .308 AR-10. I didn't use it much. It was a heavy long range (target style) semi-auto rifle, which shot well, but didn't get much range time from me. When I do my longer range shooting, it seems like I always favor the bolt guns. My brother in law was looking at buying the exact rifle, so I figured, why not. I usually try not to sell guns without replacing them with something--to minimize or prevent future regret. This heavy AR-10 is being replaced by an even heavier firearm--a Pedersoli Sharps 45-70. The Cabelas nearby had a couple in stock, and I picked the Sharps over the Rolling block model. I also just got an adjustable bullet mold from NOEbulletmolds.com which will work as either a 45 colt/460 mag bullet mold or a paper patched 45-70 mold. I also have a few other standard 45-70 bullet molds. I'm excited to test all this out. I figured that this different style of 45-70 rifle (my others are an 1895 marlin guide gun and a H&R handi rifle) would be a good replacement for the SASS .308. I will let you all know how it goes. CF, I will post a picture later. Very Happy
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    Charlie Foxtrot
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:46 pm

    Ooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    Held one at the SASS Convention. Until the wifey stole my wallet, hit me over the head, and pried it from my hands.

    CONGRATULATIONS!!!
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    Cornmastah
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Cornmastah on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:55 am

    Thanks, now I just need to find time to develop a good smokeless load for it. I don't really want to use any BP in it yet--I haven't stepped into the whole BP loading arena and don't want to for a while. I need to find/work up a decent long range load for it--I want to shoot it out to around 400-500 yards or so. Later on, if my eyes are good enough, I'd like to take it out even farther.
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    Devereaux
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Devereaux on Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:25 pm

    Trail Boss! Shoots rather like BP, but without the fuss.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:09 pm

    Very very nice. I'm anxious to hear how it shoots.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Cornmastah on Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:23 pm

    I wish trailboss was easier to find... That 45-70 is going to use a lot.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:18 am

    A cowboy chutter of some note uses Unique behind a 550gn pill. I've used those loads in his Win 1886 in a SASS side match - sweet!
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Cornmastah on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:40 am

    I've used about 13 gr of Unique behind a 405 gr cast bullet as a lighter load for the Handi Rifle. I guess I could see how well that load works in the Sharps, but I'm guessing there might be some vertical stringing at the longer distances--13 gr of Unique doesn't fill the case as much as Trailboss.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:34 pm

    Cornmastah wrote:I've used about 13 gr of Unique behind a 405 gr cast bullet as a lighter load for the Handi Rifle.  I guess I could see how well that load works in the Sharps, but I'm guessing there might be some vertical stringing at the longer distances--13 gr of Unique doesn't fill the case as much as Trailboss.

    Ol' Cowboy chutter trick for loads that don't anywhere near fill the case: top off the load with Cream o' Wheat. Not only does it keep the powder near the primer, but the smoke smells like breakfast. I've been told you don't want to compress the load.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Devereaux on Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:56 pm

    Load compression is tricky - but not an absolute. Sometimes a bit of compression make a load work SO much better.

    There are all kinds of reasons that small loads in large cases are bad/inconsistend/dangerous, but in the real world it generally doesn't seem to work out that way. Take the .45 Colt load. If you use Titegroup, then the max load for that calibre and 250 gr bullet is 6.3gr. But put 6.3 gr in the case and you don't see it. Yet at SASS matches around the nation a load in that, or lighter, configuration has been fired how many thousands of times without issue.

    The theoretical cause of vertical stringing Corn speaks to would be uneven burn. But in a Sharps, there is SO much barrel that I would think that issue would not come into play much. In a pistol, where the barrel is shorter you might see more of that, as you would get various amounts of the load consumed within time of bullet traverse of the barrel.

    But the BEST answer would be for Corn to actually shoot a bunch and report. Then we can decide if he got vertical stringing and why.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:53 am

    Very true, Dev. However, the Cream o' Wheat or cornstarch trick seems to be associated mostly with long range shooters seeking very consistent ignition in their water-bottle sized cases. I do know some .45 LC main match shooters that use magnum primers to reliably ignite light, low volume powder loads. I've also seen a couple of "fizzles" of lightly loaded .45 Colts on a very cold (for SoCal) day. Their ammo had cold soaked overnight in sub-freezing temps.

    It was the Long Rangers that told me not to compress a load with filler. When I asked why, I was told "DON'T DO IT!" Okay, then. Wink Always wondered about the physics that would engender that warning.



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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Devereaux on Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:27 pm

    OK. All you powder cowboys probably know all this better than I.

    I understand that black powder was routinely compressed, and that it shot much better that way. With smokeless, the burn rates were a lot faster, so you ran into pressure issues. Now we have the problem of too small a charge in too large a case. Theoretically you can get flame propagation issues, with the flame jumping over parts of the charge, OR burning from the top down in a low-lying charge, rather than back to front. But sort of like R-on-T questions in pacers, the theory is interesting but not really seen in real life.

    Perhaps the long range dudes know something us regular dopes don't. Perhaps YOU guys know something I don't. But I question a lot of things people say, if for no other reason than I have been reloading rounds that just don't fit any loading table for a long time and have done fine. You can claim I'm a test pilot, and I wouldn't fault you, but, eg. I shoot a Super load (in a race gun) that ain't anywhere in the Super tables - by a fair shot. (130gr, 1450 fps). Gun has not blown up. Neither have any of the other guys' who shot Open with race guns.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:26 pm

    Devereaux wrote:...Perhaps YOU guys know something I don't...

    I can guarantee that ain't the case. Wink

    I should have asked what happened with a compressed load of filler, but the direction was quite emphatic...  And I was learning a lot quietly listening to those ol' farts and their after side-match BS session. I do happily shoot a moderately compressed load of 4198 in my 5.56 varmint loads.

    "R-on-T questions in pacers" What's that?
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:31 pm

    Hey Corn, I just noticed you put this post in Bolt Actions. Party foul! The Sharps' a Leaver Gun, donchaknow? Wink
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Devereaux on Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:25 pm

    Charlie Foxtrot wrote:
    Devereaux wrote:...Perhaps YOU guys know something I don't...

    I can guarantee that ain't the case. Wink

    I should have asked what happened with a compressed load of filler, but the direction was quite emphatic...  And I was learning a lot quietly listening to those ol' farts and their after side-match BS session. I do happily shoot a moderately compressed load of 4198 in my 5.56 varmint loads.

    "R-on-T questions in pacers" What's that?

    Once upon a time, people got hysterical when a VPB (an ectopic ventricular beat) had the R-wave land on the T-wave of the preceding beat. There was a theoretical decreased resistance to falling into a deadly rhythm of Ventricular Fib or Tach. BUT then it was noted that old pacemakers ran continuously rather than on-demand, and so they had had THOUSANDS of episodes of R-on-T, so while the theory and lab findings may have been true, in a live, beating heart the phenomenon just wasn't important. Today no one even cares anymore.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Cornmastah on Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:48 pm

    Ha ha, I guess it can be considered a lever action, even though it is more like a single shot rifle.
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:28 pm

    Laughing

    I bought a book on leaver actions. (Funny, they spell it lever.) First firearm discussed was a Spencer. Wuuuuuut? Took me a bit of time to get my thick head wrapped around that. After all, John Wayne never carried a Spencer. Wink
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Cornmastah on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:55 pm

    What book is it? Does it have good pictures?
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    Re: Pedersoli Sharps 45-70

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:31 pm

    http://www.amazon.com/Guns-American-West-Dennis-Adler/dp/0785825509/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1424704981&sr=1-1&keywords=guns+of+west

    I think it was this one. The book and photos are very good - although perhaps a little too artistic. I've got anther standard reference that is still packed away in moving boxes. Unfortunately, I can't remember the author and Amazon was no help.

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