Service Ammo Change

    Share
    avatar
    Devereaux
    .44 Magnum
    .44 Magnum

    Posts : 1265
    Join date : 2014-02-28
    Location : Greater Chicago

    Service Ammo Change

    Post by Devereaux on Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:39 pm

    Interesting http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/u-s-army-switch-hollow-point-ammunition/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=0711chronicle&utm_campaign=20150711-willtheusarmymaketheswitchtohpammo here.

    There is apparently a strong rumor of a change in firearm. Along with that has been sustained rumors of change in calibre, although I sort of doubt the service will move away from the 9mm. Among other things, they would worry about females handling the weapon, and it is pretty well established that 9mm weapons are easiest for them to hold. The Short & Weak is neither reliable enough nor durable enough, IMO. They are asking for more accuracy, and you won't get that from a .40.

    I was particularly intrigued by the lawyer comment the US never signed onto the Hague Convention, which is the one that governs military bullet types. If that is true, and if you can sell this as better protection for innocent civilians (the argument LEO's make for the hollow point rounds), then it just might get put into production.

    But there is a flip side. WE do this, and you can bet the other side will also. And that will mean worse injuries to our soldiers. Possible. Hard to see stuff worse than the IED's.
    avatar
    Devereaux
    .44 Magnum
    .44 Magnum

    Posts : 1265
    Join date : 2014-02-28
    Location : Greater Chicago

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Devereaux on Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:40 pm

    PS: ?Anyone know why the "insert link" feature doesn't work.
    avatar
    MrJim
    .38 Special
    .38 Special

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2015-02-19
    Location : Pennsylvania

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by MrJim on Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:50 pm

    I have a coworker...a world-class medal winning shooter...he thinks the next sidearm will be what he calls "10mm NATO". It's interesting when GunNation had a podcast a few weeks ago noting that Winchester was selling both 9mm Luger and 9mm NATO..and that the 9mm NATO was a "hot" round comparable to 9mm+P....my coworker suggesting a 10mm NATO for a real hard-hitting sidearm round didn't sound so crazy after all....
    avatar
    Devereaux
    .44 Magnum
    .44 Magnum

    Posts : 1265
    Join date : 2014-02-28
    Location : Greater Chicago

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Devereaux on Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:02 pm

    Interesting idea. ?But would this be a 10mm, or a stiff S&W. The other issue I see, especially with S&W, is a durability one. These guns take a lot of beating, and Berettas apparently cost a lot to fix - one of their drawbacks. Gun would need to live in the sandbox as it seems we will be there way longer than we ought.

    Interestingly, your mention of 9mm NATO has been around for a long time. Way back when, the Israelis used 9mm submachine gun in their Uzis. It was a serious bump over the "usual" 9mm. And the NATO loads were always a hot round, but with the 115 gr FMJ, they holed a lot. Seems to be a general problem with our weaponry, especially since they fixed the twist on the AR's. I don't think they are really any better at distance, but not when you hit someone they no longer rip large chunks off because of tumbling on impact.
    avatar
    Charlie Foxtrot
    .41 Magnum
    .41 Magnum

    Posts : 678
    Join date : 2014-03-05

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:30 pm

    Hmm. Rub on the hardball 9mm is that it leaves nice little through/ through holes. Not a stopper. Unless NATO goes to expanding bullets, 10mm is just a little bit bigger through/ through holes. Then again, many modern combatants are going to body armor. Except for the guys running around in bathrobes screaming aloha-snackbar.

    I've seen rumors of an expanding 9 bullet that does not meet the Hague definition of a dum-dum bullet. Similar to the Hornady PowerBall.
    avatar
    Devereaux
    .44 Magnum
    .44 Magnum

    Posts : 1265
    Join date : 2014-02-28
    Location : Greater Chicago

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Devereaux on Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:15 pm

    ?So CF, are you implying there WILL be a round that is not Hague-convention compliant. ?If so, will there be rules about when and when it can be deployed.
    avatar
    Charlie Foxtrot
    .41 Magnum
    .41 Magnum

    Posts : 678
    Join date : 2014-03-05

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:20 am

    All speculation now. The 9mm round NATO was testing (reported 2? years ago) did meet the Hague Convention: it appeared as a solid nose bullet, without the "dum-dum" cavity. However, that nose mushroomed when it hit an object. It's like having your Hague and eating it too.  

    That's good for all the "illegal combatants" everyone is fighting in the Mideast. Not so good for anyone wearing body armor. On the gripping hand, the pistol is mostly being employed in the asymmetrical warfare of the Mideast and Far East. Conventional warfare engagements favor the carbine.


    Last edited by Charlie Foxtrot on Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Tennessee Jed
    .41 Magnum
    .41 Magnum

    Posts : 750
    Join date : 2014-02-27
    Location : Music City USA

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:30 pm

    I hope that if we stay with the 9mm that we do make a move to hollowpoints of some nature.

    I don't see us fighting nations signed to the Hague Convention anytime in the near future, and think the bulk of our fighting for the foreseeable future will be local crazies.

    I watched a documentary yesterday about the Battle of Mogadishu. It's still heartbreaking to hear the stories of our boys shooting "skinnies" multiple times to little immediate effect.
    avatar
    Devereaux
    .44 Magnum
    .44 Magnum

    Posts : 1265
    Join date : 2014-02-28
    Location : Greater Chicago

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Devereaux on Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:35 pm

    Perhaps the most important thing this is signalling is that some change is coming vis a vis ammunition. We have long been constrained by FMJ rounds. While we were shooting .30 cal military rounds, this was fine. You hit a guy with a FMJ in .30-'06 and he knows he's hit. Today's "modern" weaponry is a beast of a different colour, and FMJ may no longer be reasonable.

    And let's not forget that the Brits always considered the Hague a convention for "civilized" nations. For Africa they used soft lead - because "it's the natives, you know". (Kind of how they viewed the Scots and Irish, too.)

    Sponsored content

    Re: Service Ammo Change

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:12 am