NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

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    Charlie Foxtrot
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:38 pm

    .
    'bout that Webley...

    Went back to the LGP armed with just a bit of internet wisdom. The Webley Mark 1 is probably 140 year old, and the period metallurgy and design make it unsafe to shoot, even with reduced loads of black power. And down deep I'm a shooter over a collector. If you can't make noise with it, what good is it? Even though it was stupendously ugly, even uglier than I remembered -- I passed.
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    Devereaux
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Devereaux on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:06 pm

    Ha! THERE was a good decision. An old SSA (black powder) would have been worth considering as those puppies keep their value. But an old Webley?!?! Look for a Luger. I got a .30 cal one in Lexington on one of my road trips with John Althof (you met him). We stumbled into the last shop of the day, just to look. It looked like the shop would be expensive but the gun turned out not so much, after a little haggling. Got it for just about 1100. Nice piece and the numbers match. Rather fun to shoot. No Webley there.
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    Charlie Foxtrot
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:53 pm

    Yep - like the Lugers.

    Shot the snot out of a Luger a friend's dad brought back from the war. Until we found out it was a priceless collectable. Opps.

    Walther P-38s are fun too. Got one.
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    Tennessee Jed
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:51 pm

    Sorry I'm so late to the party. Been kind of busy with non-interesting things.

    That Ruger rifle is calling my name. I spent probably too much of 2017 working with my Glock "26L", practicing and practicing and practicing some more. Built up too much of a 9mm ammo supply (shameful . . . they'll take away my Elmer Keith Fan Club membership), and I could use something like this to have more fun at the range.

    I've also come to the conclusion that the most likely defensive scenario in my house is going to be firing around a corner to the left, and I'm a right-handed shooter. That makes the idea of the primary home gun being either an AR or pump-action shotgun not as attractive as they were before. So a good handy semi-auto 9mm rifle makes a lot of sense.

    And I'm with you CF, I was taking a very long hard look at that KT Sub2000 also, and this is a much better setup. I'm anxious to hear what you think.

    But, on the other hand, that new Ruger 7-shot GP100 with 2.5 inch barrel and adjustable sights is also calling my name REALLY seriously as well. I could, maybe, justify that as a carry / home defense gun, with the idea that a big flame directed downrange could always be helpful.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:40 pm

    .
    TJ, Dev - Got her to the range. and there's nothing I don't like a WHOLE DAMN LOT!

    Flawless though 80 rounds, using both a Glock Happy Stick and a Magpul 17 rounder. VERY accurate (5 rounds into a quarter sized bull from bags at 25 meters.) Easy to shoot. Holosun ACSS is by far the bestest red dot ever....
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:20 pm

    Tennessee Jed wrote:
    I've also come to the conclusion that the most likely defensive scenario in my house is going to be firing around a corner to the left, and I'm a right-handed shooter.  That makes the idea of the primary home gun being either an AR or pump-action shotgun not as attractive as they were before.  So a good handy semi-auto 9mm rifle makes a lot of sense.

    And I'm with you CF, I was taking a very long hard look at that KT Sub2000 also, and this is a much better setup.  I'm anxious to hear what you think.

    But, on the other hand, that new Ruger 7-shot GP100 with 2.5 inch barrel and adjustable sights is also calling my name REALLY seriously as well.  I could, maybe, justify that as a carry / home defense gun, with the idea that a big flame directed downrange could always be helpful.

    You'll notice I've hung a TLR-4 Light/ Laser off the snout of the PCC. Several years ago, I played with an instructor at our Cowboy range. He showed me a few things with a laser on a Rem 870. You're in a "non-traditional" shooting position (sprawl), you poke the muzzle out around the barricade, place the red dot on the target, pull the trigger, and you've made the bad man go away. Double Buck will not help your Carpal-Tunnel, though. I expect the 9mm out of the PCC will be easier on the ol' joints.

    No reason to even look at the KelTec <spit> S2k anymore.  

    My LGP has a Smith 19-3 NRA 99% for $600. Whadyahthink? If it was a 66, I'd of jumped on it.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:27 pm

    Where is everybody?
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    Devereaux
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Devereaux on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:36 pm

    Mostly out to lunch I think. Personally I've been working way too much. Time to cut back.
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    Cornmastah
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Cornmastah on Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:40 pm

    Been super busy with family, work, church, volunteering, making youtube videos, etc...
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:50 am

    To borrow a quote from Dances With Wolves, "I'll bet they're wondering, why don't he write?"

    Sorry I've been so absent. To say I've been pre-occupied is an understatement. Work has been crazy, family been needy, and I've not had much spare time at all for weeks.

    Hope you guys are all doing well. I don't have much interesting happening in the way of firearms. I've messed around with a few different handguns, trying to see if I can improve on what I carry regularly. After an interesting month trying to make a Govt. 1911 work in situations it was never designed for, I've decided to pass on it for a while.

    I'm back to making my Glock "29L" my primary. The big question I'm wrestling with now is whether I stay with 10mm caliber, or switch over to 40 S&W in a conversion barrel. Not an easy decision. Speer's 165 40 S&W Gold Dot travels at about 1170 fps, which isn't THAT much slower than DoubleTap's 165 Gold Dot in 10mm at 1300. And I'm having a difficult time overcoming the logic of staying with 40, because the manly man side of me REALLY likes the idea of carrying a 10mm. I know, I know . . .

    Getting back to the original topic, I've seen the prices of these PCC's come WAY down. Several places online have it to $500, and that's getting very tempting. The takedown capability really clinches it for me.

    Anyway, sorry for the delay.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Devereaux on Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:40 pm

    Big (for them) article in the Blue Press about this weapon. Haven’t read it but if one is interested, might be worth reading. They don’t usually speak about weapons they don’t like.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:48 pm

    Devereaux wrote:Big (for them) article in the Blue Press about this weapon. Haven’t read it but if one is interested, might be worth reading. They don’t usually speak about weapons they don’t like.

    I'll save you the time, Dev; they loved it!  Wink

    Also pointed out the natural choice of Glock mags and its suitability for real world defense, where a loooong shot is often just 50-70 yards.

    They also have an interesting article on Ruger's 44 Mag carbine and photographer Oleg Volk contributes a piece on Making a Dope Card.

    Good issue, definitely a keeper. However, I worry about the little girl (12?) they've got on the cover.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Devereaux on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:27 pm

    Good to see you’re worried about the chill’un.

    One reason police snipers moved from the .308 sniper rifles to AR’s was your point of close range.

    Still an ugly mother.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:59 pm

    Devereaux wrote:Still an ugly mother.

    Hey! You no talk 'bout my mudder!  Wink

    As to your point about the short tactical range -- I had an instructor tell us that if the baddie is 50 yards away, you should be seriously thinking about running, not gunning. Lots of reasons tactically and legally. I do know with enough time, a rest, the PCC, and the Holosun I can command the Rifleman's Quarter Mile if necessary.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:25 pm

    I haven't checked out Blue Press in a few years. Man, they have some really neat stuff in that catalog. I forgot how much I used to like it.

    However, I also am worried about the girl on the cover. Poor thing really needs to go eat a cheeseburger.

    So CF, what ammo do you keep in that PCC for defense? Do you have any concerns about 9mm hollowpoints being over-driven and falling apart on impact?

    (Since I'm messing around again in 10mm world, I'm probably a bit too focused on bullets being shot at velocities in great excess of that for which they were designed.)

    That PCC is making more and more sense to me.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:23 pm

    Tennessee Jed wrote:I haven't checked out Blue Press in a few years.  Man, they have some really neat stuff in that catalog.  I forgot how much I used to like it.

    However, I also am worried about the girl on the cover.  Poor thing really needs to go eat a cheeseburger.  

    So CF, what ammo do you keep in that PCC for defense?  Do you have any concerns about 9mm hollowpoints being over-driven and falling apart on impact?

    (Since I'm messing around again in 10mm world, I'm probably a bit too focused on bullets being shot at velocities in great excess of that for which they were designed.)

    That PCC is making more and more sense to me.  

    Hey TJ;

    My SD mag is loaded with Hornady's 115gr Critical Defense. In LIMITED testing, Ive had no failures and its accuracy of 1.5 - 2 MOA from bags is certainly more than acceptable. I've seen no indication of bullet deformation or failures. Additionally, everything I've read (Lucky Gunner was the best) rates the CritDef's terminal ballistics as superior. For now, it's my go-to load. It's also not too loud; you could **probably** fire it indoors and have some hope for your hearing. Muzzle flash is almost nonexistent and recoil is very manageable. I'm very happy with my choice for a home self-defense carbine. It's especially suitable for a smaller woman.      

    There's a guy on a Facedbook PCC forum who's claiming better accuracy with the heavier 147gr 9mm bullets.  However, the lighter loads benefit more from that extra 10" of barrel. Ah, the joys of a multi-factor analysis. I'm dying to get a chrono and math out definitively the sweet spot of the carbine.  

    BTW, the everyday 115gr FMJ military loads are pretty effective against soft body armor. Doc believes the pointed, fast moving bullet leeeevers itself between the weave of the kevlar. Seen more baddies and crazies employing body armor.    

    A 10mm PCC makes my pants all funny.  45 ACP will prolly come first, though.


    Last edited by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:17 pm

    That makes a ton of sense. The Critical Duty bullet won't separate in impact, and the increased velocity will only increase the penetration. That's a great idea for ammo.

    I've looked into possibly suppressing my AR for hearing safe home defense, but it's a carbine and it appears that a suppressor on a carbine gas system can cause reliability issues.

    However, a suppressor on a blowback 9mm PCC shouldn't be an issue and wouldn't even wake up sleeping family members. I really need one of these. Think I'll start saving up pocket change to get one.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:44 pm

    Tennessee Jed wrote:
    However, a suppressor on a blowback 9mm PCC shouldn't be an issue and wouldn't even wake up sleeping family members.  I really need one of these.  Think I'll start saving up pocket change to get one.

    Meownself, I'm targeting the coming 45 ACP PCC for the suppressor.  45 is pretty damn near subsonic as it is, and a big ol' 230gr bullet bumbling into something will still cause a bunch o' hurt.  

    BTW, CritDef has been in my SD pistols for about 4-5 years.  Never had a reason to complain. My G43 is lights out with them.


    Last edited by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:02 pm

    Great point! It would sure be an obvious next step for Ruger to put this out in 45 acp. Have you heard anything about it coming out?
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:41 pm

    Nope. Ruger hasn't even acknowledged my contention that the PCC is designed to be multi-caliber. It's just so blindingly obvious that even I could see it.    

    That being said, there's a report out there based on the Fort Hood shooting.  The <spit> used a 5.7 pistol that caused a lot more deaths/ incapacitations than could reasonably be expected. Perhaps the ol' discredited, hydrostatic shock theory is true. Makes a point for Dev's uber round: the 357 SIG. Which could be a stepping stone cartridge that combines the existing 9mm barrel and a relatively simple new 357 SIG chamber/ bolt face. Then, with a new .40/ 10mm barrel, we'd get 40 S&W and 10mm.  Nice.....

    I'll bet the 10mm comes first though.... after the 45
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:51 pm

    Charlie Foxtrot wrote:
    Devereaux wrote:My MagPul Gen3 Stock came! Looks neat. I think I am going to have to start thinking more seriously about building that lower. Probably get a couple sets of pins and springs from BAD industries.

    Dang it, I forgot: look at the Magpul K2 pistol grip. It's a lot more vertical than the A2 grip, and you don't have to bend your wrist so much. Makes a diff when you are prone.  

    Finally got the gray K2 grip installed after about a 3 month backorder. I REALLY like the more vertical K2 design. The ol' wrists aren't as supple as they used to be. The Magpul Gray turned out to be quite a bit darker than I expected. Still looks great.
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    Re: NEW Ruger 9mm Carbine!

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:48 pm

    Tennessee Jed wrote:That makes a ton of sense.  The Critical Duty bullet won't separate in impact, and the increased velocity will only increase the penetration.  That's a great idea for ammo.

    I've looked into possibly suppressing my AR for hearing safe home defense,  but it's a carbine and it appears that a suppressor on a carbine gas system can cause reliability issues.

    However, a suppressor on a blowback 9mm PCC shouldn't be an issue and wouldn't even wake up sleeping family members.  I really need one of these.  Think I'll start saving up pocket change to get one.

    Interesting new bullet design from Black Hills. Out of a 16" barrel the 100gr projectile should really hum. And, as a solid, there's little danger of the bullet self-destructing.  

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/06/josh-wayner/ammo-review-black-hills-9mm-honeybadger-100gr-p/

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