Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

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    Charlie Foxtrot
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    Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:34 pm

    The Appleseed Project was started in 2006 to increase the number of citizen riflemen (and riflewomen) and to educate them about the integral part riflemen played in the founding of this nation. The Project's stated purpose is to plant and nourish the seeds of Liberty within the populace.

    The standard Appleseed course is 16 hours over two weekend days. Students are trained in the time-tested US Army rifle techniques and taught safe firearm practices. Throughout the weekend, students shoot the Army Qualification Test (AQT) to measures their progress toward the coveted Rifleman Patch.  



    Cost for the weekend of training is an amazing value: $70 for men, $10 for women, youths, active duty military, and LEOs are free. (California Pricing)

    http://www.appleseedinfo.org/index.html
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    Devereaux
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    Re: Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by Devereaux on Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:11 am

    I know you have on several occasions extolled the virtues of the Appleseed program. I am in agreement that learning to shoot a rifle is a useful skill.

    I guess my question is simple. ?Is there a benefit beyond simply shooting a rifle to someone who has actually shot rifles at least a touch. ?Are there equivalent programs for the somewhat more advanced.
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    Re: Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:32 pm

    It's a question of degree, Dev

    The Appleseed standard is 10 shots within a 4 MOA circle within 60 seconds. At 25 meters those shots have to all go into a 1" circle. I couldn't do that, even though I'm considered a good shot. I was never formally trained.  

    This US Army/ Appleseed standard enables the "Rifleman's Quarter Mile", a span controlled by way of ammunition, a weapon, and skill. That skill has differentiated the US Soldier and Marine from all others since before WWII. The Appleseed Project teaches the same skills to the average citizen. They can make a marksman out of someone who's never owned a gun, safely, and for only 70 bucks. That's a tremendous opportunity and value.  

    In addition, the Appleseed Project seeks to remind the citizens of the role of the rifleman in protecting Liberty. They do that through the history of Concord/ Lexington and the "Shot Heard Around the World". Farmers laid aside their plows, picked up their rifles, and soundly thrashed the professional soldiers of an usurping government. This is a lesson at least as important as the shooting skills.

    Appleseed starts with the very basics. I was sadly deficient in knowledge such as Natural Point of Aim and the proper uses of a sling. Even though I've been shooting for many years, the 'seed taught me well and significantly improved my shooting skills. I can't wait until things settle down and I can finally earn my Rifleman's Patch.  

    I recommend Episodes 7 and 8 of the Armed Squirrels Project's podcast (on iTunes) for their excellent interview of an Appleseed volunteer.
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    Re: Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by Devereaux on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:51 am

    You didn't go through the service.

    I am not detracting from what the program teaches those who have never been trained on rifle shooting. And they are legion. Service time is more and more scarce these days, what with our all-volunteer military.

    Likewise, shooting rifles is good, no matter the venue. Trigger time is also always good.

    And hopefully I'm not being snarky. But I'm an old guy. I went through the Marine Corps training cycle with an M14. We qualified at 200, 300, and 500 real yards with that puppy, in prone, sitting, kneeling, and off-hand positions. I know about slings, hasty slings, and hitting targets. If my skills today are less than sterling, it's because I am old, not because I don't know the basics.

    So basically shooting at 25 yards with a rifle to me would be boring. Especially a center-fire rifle. Even a 5.56. I have shot my 2 AR's at 25 yds to sight them in, but once you are done with that, it kiind of just isn't that challengine anymore. I grant I don't shoot so well off-hand anymore, but I'm still reasonable with some support.

    ?So do they shoot at 100 yds. I have found that that distance tells you a lot about your rifle, and longer distances are mostly holding for wind; not much changes about the fundamentals, nor your rifle's performance. You shoot 2MOA at 100, it is generally 2MOA at 200, 300, etc - to the rifle's limit.
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    Re: Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:19 pm


    Appleseed Booth at the 2014 NRA Annual Meeting

    Dev, you've done your Appleseed, and well earned your Rifleman's Patch. Thank you for your service.

    Appleseed mimics distance by reducing the size of the targets. The 400 meter man-sized target are about the size of the torsos of my sister's Barbies (without the BB dimples.) The target is also greyed to approximate the distance haze.

    In urban areas, finding a 100 meter range that can be soley devoted to an Appleseed class for weekend is probably difficult. For reasons of ease and economy, the 'seeds are most often shot at 25 meters with rimfire. There are some special 'seeds shot full distance with centerfire rounds.

    Technique is the important thing. With a good foundation, doping the wind and other skills can be added later.


    Last edited by Charlie Foxtrot on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by Tennessee Jed on Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:36 pm

    Well, I never served (one of my few regrets in life so far), so I can't say what Appleseed might add or not to that training. I did take a semester's worth of rifle training with a university rifle team coach, and at the time that coach's rifle team was one of the best in the nation. Not sure if that means much, but I can certainly say that the Appleseed training taught me an enormous amount more.

    One might find it boring, but I don't know anyone who participated that felt that way. The bullseyes on those targets CF mentioned are about the diameter of a pencil eraser, and getting to where you can hit that bullseye at 25 yards, even with a scoped 22 rifle, was one of the best moments I've ever had while shooting.

    With a huge amount of luck, I got my Rifleman's patch on the first day. And I can't wait to go back. That might say something about the program.
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    Re: Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by AChristianMarksman on Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:16 am

    Dev you have never struck me as a man who thinks he can't learn from a return to the basic's so I wonder what you are looking for? For a small fee of $70 you get a chance to shoot, return to basic's, learn a new prospective on our History, have some fun, and you ( with your back ground) might be a huge help to a newbee just starting out. I can't see what the problem would be.
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    Re: Appleseed Project: Excellent Rifle Training at a VERY Reasonable Price

    Post by Devereaux on Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:23 am

    ACM - truth to tell, I am not sure just why I seem to have this mental block about Appleseed. It isn't like shooting isn't fun. Nor, as you mention, that one can't remaster, or revive, old skills by usage. I just have this resistance to shooting 25 yds with a rifle. No real good reason, just me. Perhaps you are right - I need to go try it and then speak on it.

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